Tilt to Wake DOESN'T work 95% of the time

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elusivefds
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Re: Tilt to Wake DOESN'T work 95% of the time

Post by elusivefds » Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:47 pm

samfong wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:35 am
Hi all! I have checked with the team (showed them your videos and all).

Their response is that the gesture has to be quick and large enough for the sensors to detect it. Slowly moving your arm will not trigger the sensors.

I will feedback that the sensors need to be more sensitive, however I believe that there should be a way to get it to work most of the time (with the right gesture). If anyone has done more testing on this, it would be great it you guys can share with us here!
as more have replied before - indeed, if you move your hand exaggeratedly by turning the wrist at a angle more than we normally would do, the screen will usually light up.
however, it is undoubtedly unreasonable and uncomfortable to require users to turn their wrist at such a ridiculous angle (we don't want to feel PAIN everytime when we want to check the time!!!!!)
and also, the response time is very long, which is also unreasonable.
i am sure that this problem does not exist in other brands!!!!!!!!!

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RobBrownNZ
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Re: Tilt to Wake DOESN'T work 95% of the time

Post by RobBrownNZ » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:09 pm

Hi Samfong,

Thanks for the reply. I don't believe that needing a "large, quick" motion is good enough. It should be possible to use a small motion to wake the screen: for example, if I am typing at my computer my wrist is already raised, and I want to be able to wake the watch with a quick flick.

I definitely believe that the firmware must be updated to address this. Perhaps a user-adjustable sensitivity setting? I would be happy for the watch to wake *more often* than intended, as long as it mostly wakes when I intend for it to.

Regards,
Rob.

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vinay
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Re: Tilt to Wake DOESN'T work 95% of the time

Post by vinay » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:13 pm

THere are 2 seperate issues
1) TIlt to wake only works if a do a carefully choreographed turn of my hand. I think this needs some work. ITs ok for some erroneous light ups. Right now this is so bad that I have always on display on . What is the accelerometer chip that this watch uses ?
2) There is a 2 second lag between the tilt and the display lighting up. this is so odd ,

Can you answer each of these issues ??

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Re: Tilt to Wake DOESN'T work 95% of the time

Post by vinay » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:15 pm

Can you ask your developers to try the watch for a day without the always on display ? I dont think they will need an explanation after that.

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Re: Tilt to Wake DOESN'T work 95% of the time

Post by bugi74 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:35 pm

I'm also getting a bit of hit and miss whether it detects the tilt or not and decided to test a bit...

I've noticed following things:

* Often, if the gesture starts from the end position (looking at the watch), tilt "out" and without delay tilt back "in", no detection. I have to let the watch stay still in the "out"/"away" position for a second or so. (That is, "shaking" it rapidly won't work well, probably for a good reason.)

* The gesture seems to be most sensitive to rotation around wrist axis (not the raising of hand), but does in some cases react to rotation from elbow (hand up), or to even hand down (from elbow), too. More below.

* The gesture is detected really well if it is rotation of the wrist so that the rotation is towards user's face, and reaches watch face upwards or somewhat more towards user's face. This in upright position (i.e. "upwards" for the watch is really up in the world/gravity).
* If the rotation does not reach the "face up" (or slightly more) orientation, getting almost 0% detection. Because of this, the gesture does not work e.g. when lying on back and hand points up (and watch face points horizontally).

* The gesture is detect somewhat well if it is rotation from elbow (hand up or hand down) if it reaches the watch face up end orientation or a bit towards user's face. This seems to require larger rotation than the wrist flick.

* If the gesture reaches above conditions for wake up, but continues immediately with non-wake up movement (e.g. rotating back away from the user), the wake up does not happen.


The most significant part of all that is the "watch face needs to end up pointing (world's) up or little bit tilted towards user's face". This means that if the user (or his head) itself is not in the upright position (i.e. user is not standing or sitting), the watch will not detect the tilt as reaching "face upwards" and thus will not wake up.


My suggestion:
Make the detection independent of the particular orientation of the watch in the gravity. That is, this gesture should be detected if:
* The tilt/rotating gesture is over certain (somewhat small) angle within certain amount of time on the "wrist" axis (relative to watch coordinates, "pitch" axis if I remember Google's documentation right) (no matter what it is in relation gravity),
* It is a bit larger rotation on "roll" axis, optionally combined with typical acceleration on z-axis especially in the latter part of the motion, corresponding raising hand from elbow,
* Or the combination of both.


It would be nice if the wake up would be faster, too, but I guess that latency comes from the algorithm continuing to monitor movement(s) _after_ the detection has been done, trying to filter out some "false positive" detections, i.e. just in case the user continues the movement in a way that indicates it wasn't a wake up motion after all. For example, if one starts from orientation of watch face pointing slightly away from upright, and tilts decently inwards (to wake up, works normally well), but immediately continues by tilting it back away, the wake up doesn't happen (perhaps as expected; user's can't see the face well afterwards anyway).

For this, I'd suggest something for which a bigger change might be needed: let the wake up be detected immediately (and let the watch face brighten up etc. etc.), but if the gesture detection notices that it wasn't a wake up after all, then send another event (or however the wakeup/sleep system works) on the line of "oops, get back to sleep quickly" so the display (and apps) would just briefly pop up but get back to previous state immediately.

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androidForever
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Re: Tilt to Wake DOESN'T work 95% of the time

Post by androidForever » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:08 am

Tilt (alone) is NOT the key. It is not implemented like that, that you just shake the watch! And it is good that it is not designed like that in Android Wear because the watch would almost always woken up.

The key to wakeup is:

Turning the display of the watch towards your head or body, while your arm is horizontal. No shaking is necessary. This works gread, almost 100%.

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MrGutts
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Re: Tilt to Wake DOESN'T work 95% of the time

Post by MrGutts » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:26 pm

I blame Android Wear 2.0 on these issues. I have the same problems with my Huawei watch with 2.0 running on it, with a number of other issues that was so bad I just stopped using it, it's collecting dust now. Just like my Ticwatch E is about to do.

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Re: Tilt to Wake DOESN'T work 95% of the time

Post by xpsKING » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:22 am

I have a suggestion for the Mobvoi team on this:

If the accelerator really isn't sensitive enough for the tilt to wake gesture, why not do what pebble watches used to do?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm5qucSvRDg

Flick the watch quickly back and forth to wake up the watch!

I'm sure many other ticwatch owners are Pebble users and if tilt-to-wake is really not possible, this would be a great alternative that's familiar to many of your users.

loving the watch so far BTW, this is my only big gripe so far but it seems it can be fixed with a software update, so implement this!

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bugi74
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Re: Tilt to Wake DOESN'T work 95% of the time

Post by bugi74 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:21 am

The sensor is sensitive enough, it is just the way the watch needs to move that is the issue. At least my watch detects the tilt almost 100% once I knew how to do it. And seems it is Google's issue, not Mobvoi's.

That pebble method.. ugh, no thanks :P I prefer the current method, thought would like to remove the "watch face must point up in the end" requirement from it.

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derek831
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Re: Tilt to Wake DOESN'T work 95% of the time

Post by derek831 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:30 pm

I'm having so much trouble with this (sport related injury) that I guess I'll have to use screen always on option. Very disappointing.

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